There seems to be a lack of understanding towards the concept of villains, humanized villains without excusing the terrible things they have done, the gray morality, and what counts as a hateful villain that is so evil they can’t be redeemed or saved not because they are far too gone but simply they are too evil to care about positive emotions.
Just to be clear, I don’t hate MHA. It’s on my back burner since I forgot where I left off. Yes, it has flawed writing problems because I could see it. Then and there, I heard spoilers but I haven’t read any of it. Seriously, I only heard about the Twice death through Dabihawks fics! That's how far I haven't caught up at all so likely before the raid so I think I put it off since the Joint Training Arc I'm pretty sure I haven't read MVA at all even though MVA was acclaimed in the western fanbase. Again, I only heard through the grapevine as I was in other fandoms at the time even though Dabihawks fics are in my Marked For Later.
I’m used to my fave characters and not even my faves killing people.
Code Geass has my faves killing millions. Nunnally personally nuked a whole city with her own hands because whether or not Schneizel and Lelouch tried to take the blame, she still got as much blood on her hands as her family’s which includes her siblings barring Schneizel, Lelouch, and Cornelia. Lelouch killed people including his brother, sister, a friend’s dad, and millions more. Cornelia killed many in her conquests and in her Geass Order investigation. Schneizel nuked Pendragon and intended to kill his sister and another sister on two separate occasions. Suzaku nuked a section of the Tokyo Settlement and killed his own dad and partook in the Demon Emperor's atrocities. Euphie killed a whole stadium of people!
I’m used to it because when Scar killed Winry’s parents and even as far back as Seishirou killing Hokuto. Akechi killed many people including Futaba’s mom, Haru’s dad, Joker's attempted murder, and even tried to kill them in the engine room.
I’m used to it.
Fuck, why should I have to defend this point when I'm not apologizing for the kills? Yeah, they did this and that. They are still my faves.
That’s the point of villains. They did so many horrible things.
Fuck, that’s the point of morally gray characters. Scar killed as many innocents as much as he killed murderers. Lelouch killed millions in his pursuit of dragging the whole damn world kicking and screaming into world peace.
The point isn’t to excuse them but to explain and analyze them. The whole ‘cool motive, still murder’ is not the point. Nobody is excusing and justifying them, just humanizing them. Why can’t we have complex characters who happen to be murderers? Nobody has ever excused the blood in the hands of the people I mentioned here except the haters and those with poor reading comprehension and those who basically want to apologize for their actions to the point they won’t acknowledge it.
How about thinking as these acts of crime act as conduits of nuances and interest because they have done these terrible things that made these fictional characters interesting?
There’s a difference between a villain written with the point of ‘being saved’/redemption in mind and a villain who has none despite their human moments.
These guys are written to be villains with all the deplorable things in mind but it’s another to humanize and show they need saving just as much. Sure there are truly vile villains who need not be misunderstood as this misunderstood lonely scared person lashing out.
Labeling villains as misunderstood had been a thing forever. Draco In Leather Pants and Ron the Death Eater are things apparently.
There are villains who are misunderstood and who had done terrible things but deserve a second chance and who deserve happiness in their lives even after the pain they endured. The terrible things they have done are not condoned but just hold accountable. They are still villains.
The LOV's stories and even Akechi himself are this. They didn't choose to become villains but rather their tragic lives made them believe they have no choice but to become villains. They could've been saved so easily from a slight change in their environment or parents. They were worn down after years of enduring the worst. The environment and experiences influenced the choices. They have learned helplessness because they came to believe they don't even have choices. Even Shouto basically said that he could've become Dabi if it weren't for his friends and UA.
It's that they aren't bad people initially but the system pushed them to do bad things to survive or just break laws but never justify murder and terrorism. It's an indictment of what made Hawks who he is as an assassin and a victim.
Amazingly, Akechi is popular in Japan while the villains are not. Akechi is just as much of a victim of society, an orphan with no support system with an emotionally abusive powerful dad who doesn’t give a shit. There are still LOV merch and Hori going all out in the final arc. Endy is hugely popular in Japan while the villains in P5 are often criticized for their cartoony villainy which is hilarious because Endy is in the same position of power as those guys. I’m just in awe at Endy’s popularity as it’s clear while Atlus is willing to criticize themselves with those powerful people albeit with real scandals and politics because that’s Endy; Shonen Jump and Bones are unwilling to criticize themselves as even now Endy has more merch and coddles from them (OOC, praises from characters who will never give them because he’s a ‘good dad’ now when the actions made it clear he’s still prioritizing hero work over being a dad again, etc) than from Hori who simply messed up by focusing too much on Endy than the victims. There is nothing wrong with a nuanced character but it’s another to ignore his wrongdoings and say he’s doing better now and become the best when he’s not. P5S is about victims too though some are in positions of power that can change. Because that’s the point the Thieves aren’t against authority as a whole, just those who abused it and those who unwittingly talk down to them; to them, people can change and empathize with those who got screwed over and why they wanted Akechi to redeem himself and rejoin them officially this time. It will hit Dabi hard just knowing Akechi’s hate and idolization for his dad and the crimes that he owed up to as well as his powers that he sees not as his extension of hate but as who he really is that Akechi allowed himself to be happy and at peace more than ever, not wanting to see his dad ever again; Dabi and Akechi will connect well as fellow Justices. Endy while having nuance is still just like Shido, a face of a society that was allowed to get away with anything due to his power and it’s only through the forced hand of the Thieves for he to turn himself in. Shido is after all Shinzo Abe after all.
...Oh, LOV, you haven't met a Wild Card before, don't you? Or any Persona character? Because their wisdom and philosophy will blow your mind because, in their world, there are choices when choices meant potential and potential to be better and grow into yourself. Akechi himself learned this in Third Semester so even he would fully empathize with the LOV.
LOV’s main problem is the fact they’re willing to commit atrocities. While they are gray, we cannot forget they still took lives. Knowing they took lives only adds additional layers of analysis.
But then there are villains wholly despicable with only a few moments of humanity but those moments do not justify they’re despicable and written to be beyond redemption.
Akechi may reject people saving him at that point as he believes his hands are stained with too much blood. However, he did wonder if had he met Joker earlier he might’ve been saved. Akechi took accountability for his crimes and believed himself to be beyond saving because of the blood. However, the Thieves still wish to save him.
Because that’s the point. As much as Akechi says otherwise, the Thieves see him as someone who needs saving.
The Thieves see the same in the Scramble/Strikers targets.
The MHA world will be thrown for a loop especially the League to see the Thieves the heroes of this world willing to listen and see that these people were screwed over by society and lashing out with all the bad things they did have the heroes empathize with them and guide them to a new life they deserve.
AFO and the doc Garaki are beyond saving. They have lived for this long and will continue their evil as long as they live. AFO is pretty set to die by Shiggy’s hands who have grown to hate him yet still love him because AFO had groomed him.
The LOV separate from AFO and Garaki are written to be within saving by people should they listen because, at the same time, they had done terrible things they deserve a second chance at life. Unlike AFO and Garaki, their deaths will be written and framed as tragedies.
Cersei Lannister is completely unsympathetic, a contemptible woman who deserves nothing. Her fans do not excuse her nor say she's misunderstood. She's like AFO in this regard but she's not written in the likes of the rest of LOV who are written to deserve a second chance.
Honestly, A Song of Ice and Fire is a really good series for this because it's all about 'all faves are terrible people, prepare to love every last second of them and root for them to die!'.
On a brief side note, every time I see ‘my little meow meow’, I sigh knowing it came from ARMY and designating Yoongi as catlike, not appropriation for morally gray and villainous characters. I have no idea how that happened but either way, ARMY is just tired after what they have to go through with all the denigration and hate for what is predominantly female and all-inclusive ages and races with wildly different experiences who simply love BTS and support them.
I’m digressing, moving on.
I’m not excusing Lelouch’s murders. Heck, he’s doing his best to make up for them in R2. Lelouch’s everything from his backstory to his relationship with others that he kept at arm's length isolating himself to his habit of lying, lack of trust, and taking burdens that weren’t his fault explains but does not excuse.
I’m sure as hell not excusing Childe’s murders. The very fact he’s bloodthirsty and craved fighting yet still loving towards his family makes him one of the three well-realized characters in the game. He sees himself as a tool yet has limited friends.
How is that hard to explain that you can like a morally gray or even an outright villain who is murderous or committed atrocities? That’s the point. Nobody is excusing them, but analyzing them.
Because why can’t we analyze and appreciate layers and complexity?
To negate them is to make them flat.
Also, why can’t we appreciate the complexity of an abuser while not woobifying said abuser without downplaying or invalidating the abused who just happened to be a villain?
Yeah… This is about Endeavor and Dabi.
Both characters are complex. People insist Dabi is a mass murderer much worse than now-changing ex-abuser Endy. This is not a 'who a bigger criminal' when that's not the point.
Endy is an abuser while Dabi is a mass murderer. Dabi owned up for his crimes but blamed others for how he turned out, calling his quirk Endeavor's when it's really his while the murders Endy's too. Endy did not owe up to his crimes.
One thing of note, Japanese families usually keep drama to themselves. Look at the Persona series where we see family drama is kept within and only those who the family trusts know about it. See the Dojima family, the Sakura/Ishiki drama, the Okumura situation, and the whole Akechi/Shido clusterfuck. The reason why the Thieves and the IT knew is that the family reached out for help from others.
That's what we see with the Todoroki victims. Others reached out for a support system that helped with their recovery.
Honestly, for this situation, a broadcast is needed. Because Endy needs to take the consequences and beholden himself to them.
Ugh, listen, the whole atonement (redemption is people use for it more often due to writing fumbles) thing only came when Endy saw All Might’s true form and retirement. How can I believe his whole spiel when he’s doing all of that because he has to be the no.1 hero and trying to do better by that title to his family? Why can’t he realize the horrors of his actions prior to Kamino? Not even Touya’s death was enough for him to reconsider not beating Shouto.
It doesn’t help we see more of his POV than his victims. We saw more of the abuser than his victims, not helped that his victims at the start seemed wistful about him setting the damn tone. Oh, I know Hori wanted to make Endy complex but focusing too much on Endy means readers sympathize with him instead of seeing that his beginning atonement arc was just horrendous. It’s only recently we see him actually experiencing what atonement should be than whatever performative bs with being a so-called better hero than a better dad. I know they’re in the middle of war but being a hero hurts his family. He really should keep his word by staying away because it’s up to the victims if they wish to involve themselves with him again. He should concentrate on them even if it’s from afar.
Endy can be a complex character. He can still strive to better himself while still keeping his self-absorbed selfishness and endless self-pity that is not helping anyone, forcing others to pick up the slack.
However, don’t woobify him in any capacity. He’s not a woobie when he should deal with the weight of his consequences. Don’t try to justify him when we clearly see Endy beat Rei, Shouto, and Touya. Fuck, don’t you dare look away from seeing Shouto in a flaming training room with Endy over him holding fucking metal beams! I dare you to downplay that. I dare you to woobify Endy when we saw that horrible scene!
On another note, no, Hawks look like a cheerleader but he isn't. He's an abused child looking for a hero he desperately wants Endy to be. He's looking at Endy to be the hero that saved him. He’s fucking looking at Endy as a hopefully parental figure. A parasocial relationship that he’s comfortable with because he wants the hero that made his life the way it is to be the hero that his parents especially his mom put in his head.
For fuck's sake, Hawks listened to the Todofam detailing their abuse and outright asked Endy if he gave Shouto his scar. This is important! Yes, afterward it looked like he chose Endy's side but he didn't! He wanted to save the abused family and hoped desperately that his own parents could one day reach out to him just as Endy wanted to do. Except Endy doesn't know fuck-all about that. Hawks are projecting little Keigo's wishes for a family that he wanted so badly for himself; that his own parents could reach back to him as he would gladly but supposedly turned his back on them. No, Keigo, it's not your fault for distancing yourself; your parents abused you but you are denying that abuse in a way, hoping desperately that the Takamis can be an actual family. He's projecting!
Villain fans and Hawks fans aren't downplaying these guys are killers. What Enji stans doing are denying and apologizing for his own abuse that he has yet to own up to his family? Self-pity is not getting anyone including Enji himself the development he needs. He needs to atone away from his family while concentrating on them from afar.
A point is that characters should feel the weight of the consequences of their actions. That’s a point when people are called Mary Sues, nobody sees them suffer from their actions or allow flaws.
And this goes with Dabi but in a different direction. Shouto puts it best by validating his abuse yet holding him accountable for all the murders as that fire is his, not Endy's. There are layers to his character, a desire to find a reason to live for his existence as revenge is his only thing he has, his capacity for love that he hides his pain through his Dabi persona, his rage, and violence inherited from his parents that he lashed out against the world for mistreating him; he wants to prove he’s better than Shouto, wants to expose and destroy hero society, revenge was the only reason he got, and wants to finally get his dad’s attention. It’s messy because that’s how it is. He’s no born evil monster as he wishes to apologize to Shouto though his vengeance sees Shouto as a puppet when Shouto’s arc is to be his own person separate from his dear old man with who he only wants a professional relationship at best. Shouto, the one he deemed a puppet, was the one who got through to him with his sheer unconditional love for his brother who he never knew due to Endy’s injustice. He’s so full of hope and love who had been let down, again and again, starving for even a crumb of love that it’s understandable where his rage and obsession came from. And Shouto, a brother who he never knew and saw as Endy’s puppet, reached out a hand to him and said he will.
Shouto will save his brother. His brother while still listening is still willing to commit atrocities for the goal he spent over a decade for. That copying power from Shouto will save Touya’s life and allow him to use his quirk without hurting himself after the war.
Because quirks are a part of themselves, not using quirks as penance isn’t what the story aims for.
On a side note, from knowing Hori is a massive Star Wars fan, I saw the whole Todoroki family drama as similar to the Skywalker drama. Shouto is the Luke to Dabi’s Darth Vader/Anakin. Anyone who knows Anakin knows Anakin loves with all his being which explains his actions. This is comparable to Touya’s overabundance of love and his desire for even a crumb. Luke got through to Vader with his love. It’s not a one-to-one comparison but the spirit is still there.
Really he’s no different from Lelouch and many more. A complex character and I don’t even stan him as I just like complexity.
He’s suffering consequences for his actions via failure to fulfill his goals. He needs help but he doesn’t deserve to rot in prison. Because that's the point of saving the criminals. They still need to pay for those crimes but do not deserve to rot in prison, rather needing help. It's not being let off the hook but holding them accountable for it while still having the help they need.
This is what I have seen DTESH do with the Vigilante and Villain Programs. Because the writer itself knows and sees the broken system with Joker and Mona calling bs on the world at large. Joker and Mona even took to it what police and heroes are ignoring or not caring enough to look into like trafficking rings and people abusing their power.
Thieves Can Be Heroes are having problems with not seeing the problems the hero system is doing but rather what heroes are unable to do. So I'm wary about that one when DTESH's author outright says the system is broken so shredding the system is what they can do to open people's eyes. All I can think of is that TCBH is that they have original Palaces.
Largely outsiders would have a different view of the MHA world. KHR crossovers tend to call out the MHA world relentlessly. Even a Penguindrum fusion calls them out.
Just as his dad would need to suffer some years in prison but his power and money would not see him suffer that. While it is terrible writing that we see no reactions from the pros about the abuse suffered by the Todoroki family, we should’ve at least seen some saying it’s uncomfortable. I get Hori wanted to say that it’s messed up nobody cared about the abuse but he could’ve highlighted it better like having a character say as long as he’s good at his job how are we to judge his private home life. I know that to pros, Dabi is a madman but to Shouto and the rest of the kids, Endy is the madman. And that’s the point that the pros have to learn from the kids.
Endy is in the same position as Bojack Horseman, a powerful man protected by his status and can't be held accountable. Bojack just has a far better-written redemption story than Endy because I get Hori wanted complexity for Endy but when we get far more of the abuser's POV than his victims', then what does it say about the state of Endy's arc so far? Especially when a fellow abuse victim in the likes of Hawks became his cheerleader than seeing that he's literally no better than his dad? Every time I see him get into this self-pity state even his moments of compassion are about easing his conscience and duty/regret, making Dabi's reveal all about himself when his abused family is right there. In Bojack, we see both perspectives instead of focusing too much on the abuser because the show did not apologize for the abuser.
If it's commentary that people in power don't have to suffer the consequences unless they take accountability, then it's understandable why P5 is insistent about this because otherwise, they won't suffer consequences. The biggest example with Shido who had the whole conspiracy influence to get him in his dream office. He certainly won't confess to his crimes and won't owe up to them until the Thieves have no choice but to force it out of him because he won't change until they take it. Unlike the Strikers/Scramble Targets, Shido won't be able to reach that conclusion unless something forced him to. Marigolds wanted an angle of that with an undercover agent planning to release Shido's part in trafficking the outside of Japan so people outside would wonder why Shido isn't being persecuted for it with all the whole supernatural stuff that is around the conspiracy.
Akechi is on a similar boat. While I don't think he'll stay in jail long because all of the evidence is on a supernatural plane of existence and likely he'll be sent to juvie for an illegal firearm than actual murder, Akechi holds himself accountable every day doesn't expect Futaba and Haru to forgive him. He certainly didn't expect to see Joker want him back so much that he wished so hard for him in the Third Semester. That's why I see Akechi becoming a Shadow Operative so he can use his Persona less as a weapon of murder but as a chance to see a new life he can make for himself unheeded by his hate and revenge for his dad. Akechi would have good conversations with Dabi as they both have complicated feelings towards their father because after all Loki was born from idolization and hate for his dad. Dabi has mixed feelings because he wanted Endy to look at him even if it means being a villain and wanted his approval and love while still wanting him dead. He’s still enslaved to Enji’s principles despite saying he’s free from them. Akechi whose life was dominated by hatred would empathize with him.
Everyone else isn't holding Endy accountable until AFO did, which is still a sore point because pros should call him out. The only reason his family didn't though have called him out in the past was that they were still in shock and only comforted him because it looked like he was having a pity party and they would have to do something. There is no way Aizawa wouldn't call that out when quirk marriage by lore is regarded as horrible so why aren't they reacting in repulsion? Now Endy should be holding himself accountable and doing what he says he will for his family. Heroes probably didn't believe Dabi because he's a villain with all that madman quote and of course, there's that Best Jeanist wondering what's Dabi's root cause of his grudge when Endy is right there prior to what would've been the whole Hawks/Best Jeanist road trip to find Dabi. Hawks are far too in denial of his victimhood to see the similarities between himself and Dabi and shuts out everything including not thinking of Twice at all, not helping the heroes kept saying he did the right thing at the moment. So while the heroes are finally thinking differently, Hawks doubled down just as his foil Dabi doubled down in his pursuit. When other heroes didn't believe, then there are others who should believe, right? Because even when Endy is a powerful man protected by his status and can't be held accountable due to that power, there should be heroes who are not abusive to their charges and would have mixed feelings at the least. Again, quirk marriages are seen as bad in lore and why isn't anybody reacting to that outside of the kids?
Heck, fanfiction sees to it that quirk marriages are seen as bad with even a JJK crossover had Megumi and Nobara musing on it and comparing it to their arranged marriages. I just don’t know why we don’t see the pros reacting to this especially when a student was grievously abused by a colleague they know.
That's the point of a great redemption arc. We can have a complex character trying to atone and holding himself accountable for it. That's why Bojack Horseman is well-regarded.
Is any of that hard to believe we can have complexity without downplaying either horrible actions?
I’m not downplaying that the characters I love took lives before. Please I love Lelouch and you don’t see me defending the lives he took.
My dearest wish for Lelouch was to be not the Demon Emperor but the Emperor of Justice, a beloved emperor because he'll make an amazing emperor. I want Lelouch to be happy, to achieve world peace without the cost of his life. He can get therapy later but all I just want for him is to be happy and earn the title I know he deserves. I know he can be that because I have seen the episode after his coup where he did everything in his power to destroy Britannia until he began to massacre innocents later that episode. I know he can be the Emperor of Justice but decided to be the Demon Emperor so he could die and I don't want that even if Zero Requiem is regarded as one of the best anime endings. Thankfully some authors agreed with me about that and I adore beloved Emperor Lelouch.
When that's what I wanted for Lelouch, then isn't it a wonder that I want the same for characters who have been so destroyed similarly?
Because of all the murders and crimes the LOV committed, all they want is a second chance at life albeit their methods are horrible and aren’t constructive. The Phantom Thieves of Hearts who saw humanity down to their darkest emotions and saw humanity unwilling to take responsibility for their actions would see better as they know better. The PTs opened their eyes to what is to be done because as outsiders I think they would not be taken by the glamor of heroes and see through the eyes of those screwed over by society. Due to not growing up there, they’ll react like how readers see the broken system and point it out.
In the same way, I want to speak about Hawks and Twice.
That whole situation is a tragedy. When people analyze it, themes and all, that situation is a senseless tragedy and just how wrong the previous generation is with the Hero Commission's belief that murder is good as long as it's for the greater good. The entire thing is framed as a fucked up tragedy.
In a well-written tragedy like Shakespeare, the right choices will never be made by these characters. Things could’ve ended up differently with the right choices but for Hawks and Twice, the right choice will never be made.
Twice could’ve been saved by someone who understands him. Someone who understood him can see that he will not leave his friends and found family behind, particularly for invalidating offensive things Hawks tried to posit. Twice and Hawks don’t understand each other for who each other was and had. Hawks, the groomed child assassin soldier who was taught one death will save thousands in that there are few options for anything other than death, couldn’t understand him, no matter how much he wanted to. Yeah, Twice certainly can’t understand what Hawks went through just as Hawks thought himself ‘saved’.
No, Hawks is a tragic figure. He had not been saved from his situation. Currently, he has still stuck just a tad on how the hero world is not challenging him on his decisions. Hawks was raised by the Commission and lacked a childhood, a life that he has no personhood to speak of. We and likely Hawks himself don't know where Hawks and Keigo begin. He had been raised to be Hawks, not Takami Keigo. He learned all the Commission's ruthless ways. He is not saved at all as he was stuck in a cage of the HPSC's making, working him to the bone with all the Atlas thinking and selflessness and abuse victim with severe low self-worth and guilt that was easier to exploit alongside hero worship of a man who doesn't deserve it. He denies his own abuse; by his projections into the Todoroki family, he's denying both the abuser and abused situation in both their situations because all he wanted was amends from a family he believed he turned back against when really he shouldn't think that just by sheer sympathy to Enji, inventing a world where his parents could give him the same amends when they did not while Enji doesn't know how to make amends still stuck in his own selfish mind. He does not hold what his parents did to him against them so in all likelihood he doesn’t hold Dabi burning his wings too; he isn’t angry enough, Godoka! He just needs to learn that it’s okay and that he isn’t bad for turning his back as he said to his abusive parents. If he can't accept his own victimhood and the impact, then how can he understand the impact of Enji's abuse when he glosses over his parents' abuse and feels guilty for leaving them? Hawks is an abuse victim who was made to believe they deserve it; he's not an abuse apologist. He has such a guilt complex, Godoka, apologizing for things that are and aren't his fault. Hawks is repressed, squashing down all emotions and avoiding all relationships even when others gave back the same loyalty he gave them, an avoidant attachment who is fine with superficial acts of love due to what he was used to instead of actual love. He can’t form genuine relationships and be vulnerable in part due to how he was raised by his parents and HPSC who he accommodated by putting adults and everyone else first before his own; he is used to cutting people off and his hardened heart while it will take a lot to break through.
No, seriously, had fate not had other plans, we would likely see Hawks as a villain.
On a note, unlike the monster generation in the Supernovas in One Piece and the monsters in Haikyuu, Hawks became the youngest to hit the top 10 at age 18 due to the grooming. Unlike the aforementioned pirates and volleyball players, he didn’t take charge of his own destiny. He’s just as young as Hinata Shouyo pursuing his dreams in Brazil! Unlike Hinata, Hawks didn’t make his own choices and was forced to lose everything in pursuit of the dream. Hinata didn’t lose contact with all his family and friends and made new friends in Brazil though, upon arrival, he was homesick and lonely. Hawks are just as old as Zoro and Sanji! Those guys went out to get their dreams but never forget their friends. I just want to emphasize Hinata, Zoro, and Sanji are young just like Hawks.
On a brief note, no, Hawks is not a terrible spy. Everyone was and still is fooled by his fuckboy mask. The readers know he's a spy so that means in-universe everyone does not because the heroes did not see the manipulation from their side too. The fucking heroes were surprised by Hawks' actions too just as much as the villains. The readers already know. It's only Dabi who saw through him, being this paranoid suspicious freak.
On another note, fans want him to hold himself accountable for his crimes. They aren't denying he's a murderer because he is one, he murdered Twice and others. They just want Hawks to hold himself accountable when it's unlikely he'll be spending time in prison for his assassinations like Nagant. The only reason Nagant is in prison in the first place was to cover up her crime of killing the previous Commission president. When we see nothing from Hawks actually processing Twice's death, then it's understandable that fans just want to break and process his trauma and address everything.
There is no way to get around what else Hawks was supposed to do that is in character. The kids intending to speak to the villain counterpart are in character. Hawks drawing out more conversation with Twice isn't in character as there was nothing else in his grooming background that would allow such a path. For Hawks, the only path is to kill Twice to save the heroes and kids as Twice won't surrender and will kill thousands to protect his family. Yes, Hawks failed to save Jin but it’s the thing that Hawks was too influenced by HPSC to think to understand. By then, it’s too late. Jin still died as a casualty of war and Hawks got even more blood on his hands. The two victims of society are in a tragic situation with no way out. I’m pretty sure if Nagant hadn’t snapped, she would’ve killed Twice too.
Again, Hawks killing Twice is bad but doesn’t make him a terrible person. He isn’t used to having choices as part of his character and being far too groomed means that the only choice he will make is to kill to save thousands. Hawks is morally gray because that’s the point; he will harden his heart but that doesn’t make it hurt.
It's the juxtaposition of the Todoroki bros, DekuShiga, and Togachako was meant to see that Hawks didn't have to kill Twice and it wasn't the only option.
Dabi has every right to kill him then and there as he saw everything. No, Dabi did not plan for Twice's death; that made no sense. They’re enemies in war and Hawks, a freaking hero who betrayed them just killed a mutual friend who could’ve been saved and deserved better; for fuck’s sake, don’t believe Dabi’s lies in not caring for the LOV when he does genuinely cares for them and his fragile emotional state. Dabi tried to hammer it home while still trying to kill Hawks and Tokoyami which is funny because Hawks is dying in that scene and could barely keep consciousness to listen at all. Just to be clear, Hawks didn’t want to kill Twice but as I said before his abuse and grooming informed his behavior that played a part in the tragedy. I understood Keigo’s perspective as he cannot have a massacre. Still, Godoka it’s a mistake and something shouldn’t happen had it were not for the Commission who believe their actions are just when they just want an enemy to keep their so-called justice going. Oh I cannot wait for the Wild Cards to call them out in their bs while Ryoji or Elizabeth themselves personally kill AFO with Ryoji spitting out he’s Death and actually Death and he can see that AFO far lived his prime and needs to die with all his stolen quirks returned just as Minato casually pulled out the souls and pulling the connection to the original and releasing it while the AFO quirk itself gets destroyed before his very eyes. I’m sure these inhuman guys have no trouble with human laws, particularly a law that won’t bother them.
I love Dabihawks but it’s just the same as other ships I have. Suzaku got every right to be angry and every instinct to murder Lelouch for Euphie’s death just as much Subaru hates Seishirou for Hokuto’s death yet still loves him. In Battlesleep, Optimus has every right to not forgive Megatron for playing a part in Prowl’s death even when he’s falling for Megatron. Futaba and Haru still cheered on Akiren for getting Goro’s love even as they made it clear to Goro that they won’t ever forgive him and don’t want their lives to be dictated by hate like Goro did in Akeshu fics. This is why I know in Dabihawks fics when it portrayed the divorce, they allow Hawks to process and hold himself accountable because Hawks know he doesn’t deserve forgiveness nor would he grovel for it. Certainly, Akechi never groveled at Futaba and Haru for killing their parent nor did he expect forgiveness. As Akechi said in the third semester, he thinks he has too much blood on his hands to be saved. He was surprised that Joker wanted him in his life though. Going back to Dabihawks fics, when they reconcile, the tipping point is usually that their genuine love is something that doesn’t go away with love confessions and that they apologized to each other for what they have done to the other after a daunting conversation. The Dabihawks author I am considering adding made it explicitly clear that no matter the betrayal or running away together, they are always going to end up together happily married because they are foils who can make the other so happy in the long run precisely the fact they are foils who are the only two people in the world who can understand what the other went through and it’s a true genuine love that doesn’t go away. Even though often we see Hawks having every belief that Dabi’s love turned to hate given how he has every reason to believe this with Natsuo’s Ending incident and that Dabi tried to murder him with cruelty intended. Though Hawks consoled himself better hate than indifference because he still feels something for him at least. Even if it’s now one-sided, at least to Hawks he said his piece and was willing to die, or if Dabi wanted to spare him, to leave him alone and never meet again when there’s nothing to fear now that all the things he cherished most are gone.
It's really because of his abuse and grooming that he became just like his father, his greatest fear.
Just as Dabi became just like his own dad as well with his sheer obsession and willingness to destroy his family.
These two tragic foils became just like their fathers, the greatest fears of them all. That's what abuse did to them. Two of the ultimate pair of the current hero society system victims. They are foils and I hope whether open-ended or not, I hope just like Deku and Bakugou and Shiggy & Toga and Ochako, I hope Hawks and Dabi reach an understanding. It doesn’t have to be romantic, just friendly because it’s logical as foils.
Hawks and Dabi are foils. Hawks is fully integrated into the Todoroki storyline as a fifth successful Todoroki child who does what he was told and made to become. He shares parallels with Shouto who acts as a healthy midpoint manifestation of Hawks and Dabi. The Takamis foiled the Todorokis down to the parents and family structure. Like Dabi and Shouto, Hawks have a kid savior of his own in the form of Tokoyami who utterly refused to let Hawks throw away his life so easily and will not be pushed away.
While people know Dabi's story publically at least, nobody knows Hawks' story. I mean Deku and the heroes got Lady Nagant's story so that helps at least but they don't know Hawks' story at all, just that he's Nagant's replacement and successor. This should raise red flags but I have not seen anybody make a note of that outside of Deku and Nagant.
The through-line between Hawks and Nagant can be seen in their hero costume designs with the visors and their bangs. While we don’t know if Nagant came from a similarly vulnerable childhood, Hawks certainly did. We know Hawks is Nagant’s replacement and successor which alone should raise red flags for the heroes. That means to All Might’s horror since it’s implied Hawks began a tentative ‘friendship’ with All Might, Hawks began killing in his teen years and while his kill count didn’t number up to over 60 at least which is the tentative number I gave for Nagant’s kills, he got more than 30 at the very least. That will hurt All Might knowing that the government he served will have child assassins as young as 15 killed for the greater good. He never wanted that and to know Hawks was the assassin in the shadow, a kid at the end of the day, to preserve it got to hurt. Hawks at the end of the day is a groomed abuse victim who made a killer for someone else's own ends. HPSC doesn't give a shit about him, just his quirk.
Twice likewise is simply a man disenfranchised from the world that rejected and refused to give compassion back. He has so much love to give the world. Turning to the life of a criminal is the only way to survive. His death is set in stone to kickstart the 1A saving LOV narrative because his death is the cornerstone of the tragedy, emphasizing his victimhood as well as the present threat he represented at the raid and the difference between the old and new generations to show the latter’s belief in empathy and humanization.
He is not innocent. At that moment, he wanted to protect his found family but would massacre thousands to do so. He is not innocent but he certainly doesn't deserve the way he went out. What he needs is help, not murder from another victim of society.
Twice did not deserve to die the way he did. What he truly deserves is a second chance in life. Just because he's a terrorist does not negate him the chance of a new life that had been denied. All the more tragic Hori decided he’ll die.
Hawks likewise deserved a life he had been denied. He never experienced childhood or life in general. All he knows is hero work and hero work is the goal so that heroes can longer work as hard as they can. Regardless, his methods drilled into him by the Commission denied him so much especially when his abusive background gave him no love that he is missing out on. If someone even bothers to reciprocate, then he'll avoid and shut away, always detaching himself from relationships. The Commission controlled everything including his residence. He has no form of freedom to call his own. Even now, because his abuse and HPSC's grooming still informed much of his behavior, Hawks still need a breakdown to grapple with everything from what was done to him and what he had done to others. He tried so hard to save Twice but was poorly equipped due to all the grooming done to him that drilled into him to get quick results, murder is okay as long as it's for the greater good, and that the Commission's training won out over any possible empathy over saving one life over thousands more when hearing him out might save not just him but thousands more. He cannot afford to hear Twice out because Commission training is so overpowering in the lives of many vs the life of one. Hawks compartmentalized everything including those randos' conversation about heteromorphs when he should've learned from Spinner for Godoka's sake. It's not that we don't experience static development since then, it's just you need to read between the lines in what little thought we have got since then. He didn't experience no development, just development that really isn't as explicit as Dabi's were.
It's a tragedy that simply contributed to more violence on both sides. Toga having Twice's blood basically said the whole situation is even more senseless; on a brief note, the scenes between Touya and Toga show the heartwarming and tear-jerking of LOV as well as the kind act Touya did for someone. There are other ways like medically induced coma or kidnap prior to inducing said coma or saying the Commission wants you dead and I really want you to live so please don't use your powers, just keep a low profile and escape from the mansion or just plain listen to him or let Twice know he was an assassination target by the Commission through secretive means or just tell the League but due to the way Hawks had been trained and his hero-worship of a man with dubious justice, it's a tragedy. Would Hawks rather than squash his emotions including his empathy for a defenseless scared man's tears or should he hear them out? There were few options at the time should Twice go wild and massacre everyone. Because Hawks' upbringing is just horrible, he doesn't see himself as a victim of the said system that oppressed him just as much as it did Twice. If he had not denied his own victimhood, everything would've been averted. Had Hawks chosen any other way like speaking to anyone in the LOV or doing something before the raid like kidnapping or putting him into a coma but because of how his brain was wired and his selflessness would, unfortunately, mean the death of a friend, that's a problem. The Twice problem is so difficult because Hawks does want to save him but if he didn't kill him, the clones would've killed everyone.
The way the event framed the whole thing as a tragedy. No matter what we can say about that the moment was okay for death to happen even though the very thought that someone will die today is something testament to Hawks' training under the Commission that taught him no other option exists except death or that there were seemingly few options at the time, it's a tragedy that both Hawks and Twice are forced into because of their victimhood from the current hero system as it stands. They were both being used for their quirks by the HPSC and AFO for their gains who preyed on their dreams of helping people.
This is not easy. The complexity of the tragedy is interesting and should’ve kept an eye on.
Think of it as the Euphinator moment, the SAZ juncture, the point of no return for the escalation of the war. The SAZ massacre and Euphie's death crystallized the consequences of future events. Cornelia goes off to find the Geass Order and tries to clear her sister's name; Lelouch does more to make up for his mistakes hating to use his sister's name to rally the coup he had always planned but not like this; Suzaku's everything was for Euphie's goals in his hypocritical mindset; Nunnally making the second SAZ honor her sister who she knows would not order the massacre but only truly mourned her yet not feeling every death felt there like Euphie and Lelouch although saddened and horrified by the massacre; Nina with her sakuradite nuclear bomb. Even others who don't personally know Euphie count. Duke Calares' public executions of rebels. The Chinese Federation’s decision to declare war was only stopped due to the arranged marriage and then later Lelouch's reveal of the Eunuch's agenda. A more renewed vigor for the Ragnarok Connection plan for Charles and Marianne.
The same can be said with that single event of Hawks and Twice. An escalation of war and violence that cost the lives of many. The kids think differently wanting to save the LOV and criminals as they see the pain.
Euphie and Twice are comparable. At their core, they are earnest and good people who are simply screwed over by people and society unwittingly or not. They are set to die at the most pivotal tragedy that unravels everything.
Even though heroes say it's the right thing to do at the time, nobody is challenging Hawks. Makes much worse we don't see Hawks' emotions and reflect on what led to the event, any insight at all. We got nothing to was the lead-up to the event and what are his thoughts or anything. Not even a vague thought that could be construed as concerning in hindsight. Look at Dabi's words that made sense in context. All we got is Hawks throwing himself into the war effort and squashing down thoughts that could break him. For those, you have to read between the lines. There was a natural progression to his arc there but it's just not there, not even a single thought that can be worrying in hindsight. We could have more Hawks with Lady Nagant because there we can see that he's trying not to break like his predecessor. You really have to read between the lines of what we do have because his arc isn't as explicit.
On a side note, there is no way Twice is his first kill. He gotta be killing since his teens when Nagant was still in the Commission's grasp. When Light Yagami and Lelouch reacted appropriately to their first kill by their own physical hands, they were shocked. While the latter had killed Clovis' guards in self-defense, he personally killed Clovis and vomited which we see while we see Light as shocked. There is no way Twice is Hawks' first kill, given just how calm Hawks were. Hawks had been trained to be an assassin to maintain society, killing people who haven't done anything yet.
At the current time prior to Uraraka vs Toga, Hawks likely don’t regret it though feeling definitely guilty about it. Should he see Toga uses Twice’s quirk to save people after being saved by Uraraka, then he’ll see where he failed to save Twice were to save him, you must also save his friends. That Jin, out of his own volition, saves people should you save his friends. That way he can see where he went wrong who wanted to save people and HPSC trained him so wrong. Again I don’t think Hawks have processed anything about Twice’s murder beyond what had to be done to save thousands and he can reckon with that. Not helped that his fellow heroes reassured him otherwise, I think as in between old and new, he got better though need extensive therapy.
Hawks who never had friends never understand what it means to truly be friends; he’s improving but doesn’t quite get it. I hope he sees that, cries, and apologizes to a Twice clone who definitely remembers his betrayal and murder probably. A resolution of sorts would have to happen for Hawks saying or to have a moment of 'he made a choice and he chose wrong' especially after seeing Uraraka and Shouto save Toga and Touya respectively. Other options existed that he really didn’t have to do. I already said at length it’s a tragedy on both sides and that there was really no other choice either could've made to change the tragedy because of how they were raised and their thought processes. I hope, unlike the previous conversation where they didn’t understand each other at all, they understand each other fully now with Twice now seeing that Hawks didn’t see other options because he was trained to be an assassin by the Commission who sees Hawks as their pet/military dog who doesn’t give a shit about the lives they ruined and killed on their orders. They certainly don’t care about the school kids who they will send off to the battlefield. When they train child soldier assassins to see death as the only possible option, then who knows what other things they have done that are downright monstrous, thinking themselves to be morally gray or good even. Hawks and Nagant are morally gray, the Commission are just monsters who see kids as fodder. Though not helped at all the hero schools are high schools so if anything they see kids like Oboro dying, they see it as for the greater good as they see and justify themselves even worse than Hawks who they groomed to kill on their order.
What Hawks deserves is a new life to discover who Keigo is and to mourn his friend who truly cared about him. He deserves to make his own choices and what kind of hero he wanted to be. He deserves to find a family who can love him as he so dearly wanted. I want him to be a search and rescue hero or a paramedic after the war. He doesn’t have to worry about numbers anymore when he’s doing what he wants to be instead of being the HPSC’s pet. He deserves to have a friend I hope Touya becomes a friend to him though as always Twice’s ghost hangs over them. It would take work but I think as foils, they can and will understand each other.
Besides if you wanna see a believable Dabihawks reconciliation, go see chapter 8 of Gravity’s Burn; the caveat is that Hawks processed everything at that point due to being in love with Dabi, and Dabi was able to make him see just a tad but not enough. The chance they’re meeting at the point in canon where Shouto will save his brother finally as Hawks haven’t processed anything beyond scant insights, reading between the lines, and slight improvements watching the kids and he wasn’t listed among the old generation.
We don’t even get to see differing views from pros and the public upon Dabi’s reveal. What we got instead is indifference because Dabi is a villain that spreads lies.
One fic gave different POVs when a charismatic phantom thief revealed the crimes of a hero in which the thief made certain to make sure the hero attack him in public. We see victims making a point to eviscerate anyone bringing up the hero’s success and speaking up, holding the hero accountable. We see disbelievers and even, later on, we see people debate whether or not the trial was fair or not. Even then, while we do see people no longer relying too much on pro heroes, they still rely too much on the all-powerful thief to solve their problems, something the thief knows from experience; as much as they are beginning to think for themselves, their reliance on others to solve their problems still remains. We got nothing particularly when quirk marriages are viewed as awful in-universe and the very fact Eri, an abused child, got comfort from Aizawa but Aizawa wasn’t seen ripping Endy apart and comforting Shouto. I know they’re in a middle of a war but express discomfort at least. I can’t see Rock Lock not coming right up and calling him out when he’s a loving dad.
Again, I understand if Hori was trying to say it’s messed up the world didn’t care Endy was an abuser but not to the detriment that it’s not as universal as saying the collective unconscious refusing to take responsibility for their actions and not thinking for themselves because it seems that way P5 shows better even without the over-reliance on pro heroes. Ugh, just thinking about how amplified that thinking is in MHA really makes me want to write Akira, Morgana, Yu, and Minato telling this bluntly to Dabi who learned it the hard way. I’m betting adult Akira would tell after a while because he experienced it himself and knows it will be no different particularly when the over-reliance was evident. There should’ve been some discomfort at the very least but it seemed a villain is all that is needed.
The writing for MHA hasn’t been that great since the raid or rather Dabi's Dance at the very least since then up and downs regarding writing. Sure there is great writing when it counts like Nagant, the kids barring Eri and the Big 3, the heroes particularly All Might and Hawks learning, the LOV. A great feature of Hori’s writing is his consistency. Still, it doesn’t negate fumbling and mishandling of certain arcs. Hawks had been dealt a blow since we don't get an insight into his thinking about Twice or even a hint about his thoughts about the lead-up to the event itself. Nada. Unlike JJK which I know is chugging close to the finale too, MHA isn’t that careful as sacrifices like Mirio and Eri’s development were offscreen therefore rendering the Overhaul arc pointless when we got such a painfully bad payoff. The Mirio and Shiggy interactions are far better than the reveal he got his quirk back. JJK is still praised for their writing while MHA had mixed feelings for a while now.
There have been things that got axed like Best Jeanist and Hawks going on the road trip to find Dabi, the Giran Black Market arc, the Nagant arc apparently being halved including more HPSC stuff meaning Hawks too, the intermediate burgeoning LOV forest camp arc, and the whole Garaki using his grandkids/orphans to make Nomu thing. Most of it could be attributed to the lack of popularity the LOV has in Japan hence why we don't have an OVA of them and why MVA got rushed. It's probably because the villains upon the first introduction and for the first half before their backstories were revealed to be flat so probably didn't help. Unlike in One Piece where characters from really bad guys and the cruel Marines are popular, MHA doesn’t have the same luxury. At least with the final arc, we get the villains when we know Hori wanted to show the villains more sometime prior to Kamino. Hori should stick to his guns like Oda instead of withering under the editors like Kishimoto did. Because Oda stuck to his guns and showed an entire arc without the Strawhats in Reverie and OP is still as popular as ever. Perhaps Hawks' infiltration was also cut for the most part because of the villains. Hawks suffered the most in terms of cuts when it comes to the heroes' side of things because people just aren't understanding Hawks at all.
And that’s not even things that haven’t been properly explored like the Quirkless. We don’t see how they are treated as adults but we do see Izuku as a kid. I don’t like Tsukauchi as Quirkless because it just doesn’t make sense, given his sister and the world in general; just because one of his ancestors got his quirk stolen doesn’t mean that ancestor wouldn’t have already married and reproduced. Thank god for Aoyama, Melissa Shield, and Toshinori but still won’t see much of what would be depicted. Fuck, we don’t get to see Mirio’s experience as Quirkless so… Knowing the Quirkless is all but wiped out next generation is not something that makes me happy because we just don’t see anything when fanfics go out of their way in expanding.
Other things like Quirk discrimination are explored but not the Quirkless. Not enough on that one, unfortunately. I don't care if they would be disappearing canonically, just explore them for the love of Godoka.
There are so many things cut or just don't make sense. I know Mirio and Eri aren't major characters but they have their own arcs but it's largely offscreen instead of dedicating an arc to them. Somehow offscreen Eri mastered Rewind and isn't a healer for some reason. I would understand if people wish to keep their injuries for one reason or another, but Eri should be a healer at least or people don't want Eri getting out to the villains. When the villains are using Eri's quirk however indirectly via the quirk bullets, then what does it say about the heroes who need Eri's powers more than ever? If you're having kids fight, then have Eri be the proper healer if the villains are using her quirk indirectly to heal themselves?! Just have her use it sparingly. Then again, outside of Hawks who hates the concept of child soldiers since he's one, the pros are learning not to use child soldiers ever and probably will have hero schools go up to college age probably.
I know MHA had a problem with character focus from the beginning. As a result, it's not as lived-in as One Piece. People felt too much focus are on Deku and Bakugou and not enough on other details. It probably doesn't help we don't see Eri's development at all unlike say the Todoroki drama which we know is plot-relevant but still this is Eri who is an essential character in an arc that is now rendered pointless with the nonsensical payoff. We don’t see that kind of eye unlike say Coby and Helmeppo which we see on the cover illustrations. In those cover illustrations, we catch up with minor and major characters alike from villains to Marines. It’s amazing to see just how alive and expansive the world of One Piece is. It’s less amazing in MHA which doesn’t feel lived in enough as a result of the trajectory of the writing that either doesn’t feel earned enough or just poor writing. Hori can write good stuff such as his depictions of mental health, abuse, and complex characters with the proper themes even though he fumbled with Endy’s arc. A major theme is about the next generation hence the kids won’t be dying, maimed sure (Jiro lost an earphone jack) but not killed off for real. I didn’t believe Bakugou will die for a second. The old generation sacrificing themselves for the new gen is a good thing while Hawks, the middle guy, and the story sees him as part of the younger gen, not the old one that Hawks thinks he is, will live.
This is not Disney but shounen genre conventions in the likes of the popular Big 3 and Dragonball. The major character death is used sparingly as Oda brought back Sabo even though I heard complaints about it. Horikoshi is a big fan of OP and Naruto with Naruto as a major inspiration. Believing Bakugou was dead in the first place makes me think these people would be fooled by the Disney twist villains. I didn’t think Bakugou would be dead and stay dead because it makes little sense.
MHA is like Naruto. An overall hopeful story. It’s not JJK or CSM. It doesn’t follow current trends but takes a lot from classic shounen prior to those modern ones.
If nothing else, Hori writes like Kishimoto. Weird plot choices but the themes are tight.
I had mixed feelings too. What I know was from reading spoilers since I put the series on the back burner before MVA. At least when I put One Piece on the back burner, I kept hearing awesome stuff and amazing writing. I keep hearing ‘OP is crazy good this week’ while MHA was slightly mixed but when things get good, then things get good. Seriously, everyone fawned over Nagant.
It’s not that I don’t like MHA. It’s just the writing can be good when it’s good but cracks are showing due to a lack of proper exploration and axing. I’ll rather have Hori tell how he would’ve told the story rather than the mess the writing had been. That means sticking to his guns to developing villains even if the reader rate would go down. I don't give a shit when Oda got to do what he wants.
There's not a lot of time left if Hori intends to finish this year. That means arcs that just seemed to leave people in confusion about characters' arcs because they just don't know the trajectory anymore. There's one thing to want to surprise readers but there's another if they intend to finish the story and leave things not great.
But I can deal with it. Hey, when I dealt with the rollercoaster that is Code Geass R2, then anything is possible. The cracks of the story show there but with Goro Taniguchi at the helm, at least they are connected and coherent.
MHA's problem is that when the story is good, it's good. However, the cracks from outside forces and even Hori's own exhaustion and desire to finish the story meant sacrifices rendering things pointless. The Overhaul arc which had already been decried as just the same old damsel rescue story had been rendered meaningless with the nonsensical payoff; seriously, if it means AFO and the villains are using Eri's quirk more than the heroes, I am just in shock because Eri would want to help them and heal and put off the burdens of the overworked Recovery Girl and doctors. I know she’s a child but she knows there’s a war going on and would only help with limited supervision at most. There is good stuff in there but if the anime staff wants to help Hori adjust what he wanted to tell including stuff he wanted to add, then yeah I hope the anime would alleviate what the manga has forgone. If World Hero Mission is the warmup, then I hope the arc is done some justice after the rushed affair that was MVA. They left out Spinner’s stuff so I’m hoping to see flashbacks in the war arc because Spinner's loyalty to Shiggy is plot-relevant as heck. You can't write around that so they eventually have to animate Spinner's story and what led to his loyalty to Shiggy because it's plot-relevant to hell and back.
I'm sure even the anime staff and Hori know just how much the audience found the story mixed since PLF with things that are just there and not enough. Sure, people noted some good stuff but overall everything is closing in a rushed conclusion with barely enough time.
What Hori needs the most is rest because it's clear when he has the time to rest, he will come back producing greatness. He doesn't have what Oda has which is sheer stubbornness and dedication no matter the odds and when Oda does take breaks, it's fine for everyone. A one-month break is nothing. Hopefully, Hori's next manga will have him get more breaks.
Of course, MHA is still popular. I haven't heard any readership going down, just murmurs of the rushed storytelling, critiques of the writing, and what has been good is really good. Remember Naruto and Bleach in which I remember a lot of criticisms aimed at it when that's nearing the end of the series. Bleach is now looked back on fondly though I definitely remembered the years of criticism. Unlike Bleach, Naruto had not fared well although certain stuff after the time skip had been looked at fondly. Honestly, it's more heightened as people felt they have an entitlement based on how they felt the story should go instead of knowing what and why these choices are made. Like, have they not attended English classes in high school and college about analyzing literature? Because I understand why the Hawks vs Twice happened as well as Twice's death as well as everything about Hawks. I understand what the story is trying to tell even with the axing.
While Bleach and Naruto have pretty bad writing and Tite Kubo is not a good writer by any means but at least then people understand the flaws and what was happening, MHA seems to be the new scapegoat perhaps purely because of what was done to the series by outside forces and what MHA is that was unable to explore things in more depth.
Hori, if he wanted to have free reign over what story to tell, had to tell it subtly. MHA had been blatant about his criticisms of hero society which is a superpowered Japanese society with the final arc going all out with the remaining LOV’s stories making this clear. Hori had to cut and alter his story a lot so in the future, we will know more about it and what story he wanted to tell hopefully with free reign. He could've had a Hetalia thing for himself.
Spinner's story was cut in the anime for some reason even though it's plot-relevant in the final arc. For some goddamn reason, Dabi's arm around Hawks' shoulders is cut so no idea why that's changed even though there's a seemingly sexually charged tension going with both the JP and Eng VAs going all ham. Just read the manga because the anime cut a lot that is plot-relevant. For some odd reason, they kept adding scenes where Bakugo got pre-character development in the continuous post-character development making Bakugou lose what he had. It was the breaking point apparently for Horikoshi as Bakugou is getting the worst treatment and begged anime-only watchers to read his manga.
At this point, I’m just hoping to see another reboot of MHA with everything intact and the development he wanted to add without the editors losing certain development and adding on what the mangaka wanted. It could be a mix of FMAB and HxH.
If anyone in Japan wants to criticize Japan, they have to do it subtly or in the supplemental material. Code Geass got this with Lelouch outright pointing out what Japan did wrong to Suzaku's face in an audio drama. In Hetalia, we see Kiku get just as much pain by Yao's wok just as we see Kiku backstab Yao with that sword which is as overt as Himapapa could do as the anime didn't adapt that but did show China whacking Japan with the wok repeatedly. Hori got why Tiger had to go to Thailand for his sex-change operation, implying both the real and fictional Japan still have this. I criticize Magne getting killed off as just reasoning for Shiggy and Toga's motives but she isn't misgendered so there's that and Toga is as close as you get to bisexuality albeit predatorily in MHA while outside of Tiger, we haven’t seen a hero or a civilian that can get as close to gay subtext with only Hawks being the possible one here to explore. P5 basically criticizes Japan to its face with P5's political game stuff; for the love of Godoka, Shido is Shinzo Abe. YOI has to be subtle because it's a queer story in a figure skating anime.
When I'm Persona-fying his story with all the details I know will be in there, I hope I want to show what Hori wanted to tell meaning as much as Spinner will be with the Wild Cards due to the Wild Cards taking away everything from Stain and the LOV, I want to add Spinneraki and Dabihawks because I feel Hori wanted to tell something there. There is just so much we don't know about Hawks and Dabi even with what we know about their backstories and development that the tears Hawks shed threw everything off course so...
